This site is in archival mode. A replacement is being developed. In the meantime, please use the PBW2 Forums for community discussions. The replacement software for this site will use a unified account system with PBW2, and any newly created threads will carry over.
Welcome to Spaceempires.net
Login or Register

Search
Modules
· Content
· Downloads
· Forums
· Game Info
· Image Gallery
· Links
· Shipyards
· Topics
· Staff

User Info
· Welcome, Anonymous
Membership:
· New: Astorre
· New Today: 0
· New Yesterday: 0
· Overall: 3155

People Online:
· Visitors: 108
· Members: 0
· Total: 108

  

Spaceempires.net :: Developing a SE4 clone :: View topic
Forum FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in


Developing a SE4 clone
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Spaceempires.net Forum Index -> Spaceport
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Do you want to help develop a SE4 clone?
Yes, I can program
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
Yes, I can do artwork
28%
 28%  [ 7 ]
Yes, I can playtest
32%
 32%  [ 8 ]
Yes, I can do something else (post what that is)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
No, but good luck
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
No, don't waste time with this
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 25

Author Message
Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Developing a SE4 clone Reply with quote

This is a poll gauging interest in developing a SE4 clone. The idea has been kicking around for a while now, but nothing has been done yet.

Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't do much myself (I'm a crap programmer, don't have the patience to do artwork, and don't really have the long hours needed to be a proper play-tester), but good luck to anyone who gets involved.

Back to top
Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Yes Yes

I will do everything but program. And if you ask nicely I bet you can get ed to do that.


Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already signed up for that, but I really don't think I can do that on my own... Sad

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
DarkFire
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 04, 2013

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
It would be great to see a remake of SE4!
I'm not a master programmer but do know my way around, so I can help on the programming bit if wanted.

DarkFire


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Smile
What languages are you familiar with? My preference is C#, but I'd be fine with pretty much anything more modern than C++...


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, might this topic go better in the SE4 spaceport? Or would it get lost there?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put it here because it isn't about SE4, per se.

Back to top
Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early version of UI mockup

http://s11.postimg.org/mmh195ncj/Untitled_1.png


Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good so far, except IMO the icon bar could really do with being two icons high.

As for other things, I know you're nowhere near that stage yet, but would it be possible to rework the damage system so that the likelihood of any component being hit is based on its size rather than it's strength? Oh, and some bit of code whereby a ship's movement is approximated as a circle.


Back to top
DarkFire
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 04, 2013

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekolis wrote:

What languages are you familiar with? My preference is C#, but I'd be fine with pretty much anything more modern than C++...


I'm most familiar with C++ and Python and to some degree Java. I think we should try to aim for cross-platform compatibility (Win/Mac/Lin), not sure how C# is in that setting?

Any thoughts on what libraries we should use? Most of my experience with 2D game programming is with Python and Pygame.

MatII wrote:

As for other things, I know you're nowhere near that stage yet, but would it be possible to rework the damage system so that the likelihood of any component being hit is based on its size rather than it's strength? Oh, and some bit of code whereby a ship's movement is approximated as a circle.

We should probably try to limit any new features and fixes in the beginning and concentrate on getting a playable version up and running. But improving on the game should definitly be on the long time todo list! Are we going for an exact replica of SE4 or more of an SE4 "in spirit" clone?


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm most familiar with C++ and Python and to some degree Java. I think we should try to aim for cross-platform compatibility (Win/Mac/Lin), not sure how C# is in that setting?

Any thoughts on what libraries we should use? Most of my experience with 2D game programming is with Python and Pygame.


C# can be done cross-platform, thanks to Mono. I was actually looking into a GUI toolkit called GTK# - you might be familiar with GTK+, the toolkit used by GIMP; well, GTK# is a C# port of that. (There's always WinForms, which Mono does support, but trying to make anything look good in WinForms is a nightmare, since styles need to be meticulously applied to each individual control one attribute at a time - there's no way to apply a bunch of style attributes to a control or group of controls all at once!)

I've done a bit of Python, and while I really hate the whitespace-Nazi factor, it's not a bad language apart from that. Never used PyGame, though. Does PyGame have a GUI toolkit, or would we be forced to lay out the GUI in code using OpenGL vector coordinates or something like with THANCS?

Also, can you compile Python code into an executable? I don't want to require everyone who wants to play this game to install Python and run a bunch of scripts... C# you still have to install the framework, but you at least have an executable, not a folder full of scripts!

Quote:

We should probably try to limit any new features and fixes in the beginning and concentrate on getting a playable version up and running. But improving on the game should definitly be on the long time todo list! Are we going for an exact replica of SE4 or more of an SE4 "in spirit" clone?


I think the idea is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Combat Wombat, that the rules of the game should be as close as possible to SE4, but open to expansion. For instance, while overhauling SE4's broken intel system would be nice, it would have to be via an addon, not part of the base game, so as not not break any mods that depend on it. And one idea we'd discussed was having multiple ship layers, sort of like in SE3, but moddable. (Not just armor and internals like SE4, but arbitrary layers with their own requirements for what goes into them.) But that would be something we could build into the engine if it's not too much trouble, and just not enable by default; if a modder wants to enable it, they could turn it on and use it.

As for the GUI, though, I think you can see from the mockup that Combat Wombat posted that while it's certainly supposed to look familiar to SE4 players, it's definitely not a direct copy of SE4's GUI. It should have new, convenient features added that make the game easier to play, such as the expanded ship details view and the map search box. Also we want to have some original graphics that are merely inspired by SE4's graphics, not direct ripoffs Very Happy

By the way, the last time we attempted an "in spirit" clone we wound up with Star Legacy, and that didn't exactly fare too well... Razz

edit: oh, and one other area of compatibility: savegames! Those are completely out the window. We don't even WANT to know what's in those things... Shocked


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any way to extract the SE4 code? That would speed up the process remarkably.

Back to top
Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattII wrote:
Do you have any way to extract the SE4 code? That would speed up the process remarkably.


Well couple reasons that is bad

A. illegal
B. from what I understand from aaron the se4 codebase is a sad embarrassing mess (could have been se3 he said that about though been awhile)
C. illegal


Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


Back to top
DarkFire
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 04, 2013

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Python can be converted to executable code using "py2exe". There is no automatic GUI layout in PyGame (or specific GUI elements at all for that sake).

I don't mind using C#, it shouldn't take too long for me to get into it. Always fun learning a new language Very Happy


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear you're willing to learn a new language! I for one wouldn't be up to doing something like that for a project this size! Wink

I actually did a bit of research into GTK#, and it looks like the styling functionality isn't actually what I was looking for. It looks like it's more geared toward user customization of the entire desktop (i.e. all GTK applications that a user runs) rather than developer customization of a single application.

If we are going to use C#, I'm thinking it might just be best to stick to WinForms, then, even if the game will either look like crap or require meticulous attention to detail to make not look like crap. It might be possible for me to put together some sort of code that will make that a bit easier - say, in the designer, the game looks like crap, but at runtime I could have it dynamically change all the controls to have the proper colors and such. Doing it this way would also make it easier to let players customize the look of the game - say, if they want red text rather than blue, or something.


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, what about, instead of redeveloping the whole game, developing a big mod (for example, like the "Wake of the Gods" mod for HoMM3)? Or would that take just about as long and be less modifiable?

Back to top
mrexciting
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 10, 2013

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been a long time SE fan and think this is a great idea (since SE6 doesnt look to be happening any time soon).
I agree that this should be a clone, maybe with a few tweaks (like some of the things SE5 improved).
I am actually part of a "in the spirit of SE4" project right now and it quickly grew to ridiculous proportions. While i am really enjoying being a part of it, i do worry that it wont scratch my SE itch once its finished.


Back to top
Combat_Wombat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattII wrote:
Hm, what about, instead of redeveloping the whole game, developing a big mod (for example, like the "Wake of the Gods" mod for HoMM3)? Or would that take just about as long and be less modifiable?


I would say the main reason skyburn, ed and I are interested in a clone is we have all reached the limits of se4 for our own mods. The game is amazingly mod-able but it has some painful limits.


Co-Lead of the FrEee project an open-source Space Empires IV clone

Author of Invasion! for Space Empires IV


Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but that's the thing about "Wake of the Gods", HoMM3 wasn't traditionally moddable, but they went to great effort to make the mod, and can now change most aspects of the game. They can't seem to do much with the GUI, but I suspect that that's because it's pretty tightly packed already

Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the game wasn't moddable to begin with, they probably hacked the executable, which as CW already stated, we don't plan on doing.

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
MattII
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 16, 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the game's set up differently, I suspect they just hacked the data files, which I suppose in this case wouldn't work.

Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I see we have a third programmer now? Wonder who that is?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I should mention... I started implementing parts of the screen that CW mocked up in C# using WinForms. It's a bit ugly, but I found the styling wasn't as difficult as I'd feared; controls seem to inherit a lot of settings (like background and foreground colors) from their container, which I didn't remember being the case.

Should I go ahead and create a repository on Bitbucket or someplace with the code? I guess we should decide whether to make this open source or not. I'm assuming we'll want to do so, since I don't see any real reason to keep it closed. Also, we'll need a name for the project. The other day on IRC, Suicide Junkie suggested "FrEee", and folks seemed to like that, so that's what I called it when I created it in Visual Studio, but if anyone's got a better name, it would probably be best to make it known before we go and make a public repository.


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, by the way, here's a screenshot of what I have so far:

http://edkolis.exofire.net/freee-screenshot.png


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Spaceempires.net Forum Index -> Spaceport All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB
All logos and trademarks used on this site, all comments and stories posted for reading, all files hosted for download,
and all art work hosted for viewing are property of their respective owners; all the rest copyright 2003-2010 Nolan Kelly.
Syndicate news: SpaceEmpires.net News RSS Feed - Syndicate forums: SpaceEmpires.net Forums RSS Feed
Page Generation: 0.36 Seconds